It’s Both — Living in the Messy Middle

What happens when the version of strength you've been taught stops working — and being a "strong man" makes you a terrible father?
Olaolu Ogunyemi is a leadership speaker, author, and U.S. Marine Officer who became a dad at 19. He thought leadership meant being the hammer. Then he yelled at his three-year-old daughter and watched her break. That moment changed everything — and put him face-to-face with the gap between who he'd been taught to be and who he actually wanted to become.
This is a conversation about navigating major life changes in how you think about masculinity, emotions, and what it means to lead. About the messy middle between military toughness and emotional presence. For anyone trying to break cycles they didn't even know they were in — whether you're a parent, a leader, or just someone realizing the person you've created isn't who you actually are.
Olaolu shares the moment he knew he had to change, how The Lion King vs. Frozen explains generational shifts in leadership, why vulnerability isn't weakness (it's protecting the injured offensive lineman), and the mood meter tool he uses with his kids to name 50 emotions when he was only taught to name four.
In this episode:
-Why yelling at his daughter broke Olaolu's idea of masculinity
- The Marine Corps mentor who said empathy isn't weakness
- How to stop overthinking your emotions and start naming them
- The both/and of leading and following, controlling and letting go
- Why being uncomfortable isn't the problem — avoiding it is
- How to set boundaries between who you were raised to be and who you want to become
- What "Lead Last" actually means (it starts with leading yourself)
Get Connected & Support the Show:
- Listen to the companion podcast: It's Both- Guided Meditations for Anxiety, Emotional Regulation, & Real Life Transitions
- Follow Olaolu on Instagram & visit his website or his LinkedIn
- Subscribe, rate, & review It's Both on Apple Podcasts

Zach Watson thought he was a good partner. Then he asked if the blueberry muffins were too hot — 90 seconds after watching his wife pull them from the oven. That's when he realized: he wasn't just missing the point. He was adding to her mental load. His marriage almost ended in 2018, not because he was a bad guy, but because he didn't see what his wife was carrying alone.
This is a conversation about navigating major life changes in partnership when one person is the co-founder and the other is a passenger. About the transition anxiety that comes when you realize your relationship isn't equal — and the messy middle of trying to fix invisible labor you can't even see yet. For anyone holding resentment, overthinking every ask, or wondering if setting boundaries around mental load makes you selfish.
Zach is the Mental Load Coach. His blueberry muffin video went viral with 20 million views. Now he helps men stop adding mental load and start showing up. He shares how to tell if you're reacting from emotions or responding to the situation, the BUILD meeting framework for navigating life transitions in your partnership, why "how can I help" actually creates more work, and the emotion wheel that stops defensive spirals before they start.
In this episode:
- Why mental load creates crushing loneliness (not just overwhelm)
- How anxiety multiplies when your partner becomes a passenger
- The BUILD meeting framework (and why it's not boring)
- Why setting boundaries around invisible labor isn't selfish — it's survival
- How men can stop starting over every week and actually own routines
- The emotion wheel for communicating without defensiveness
- Why society devalues $247,000 of annual labor — and refuses to pay it
- The Brené Brown shame rap (yes, really)
Get Connected & Support the Show:
- Listen to the companion podcast: It's Both- Guided Meditations for Anxiety, Emotional Regulation, & Real Life Transitions
- Follow Zach on Instagram & join his free mental load basics community here
- Subscribe, rate, & review It's Both on Apple Podcasts
- Join the Courageous Living Group Transformation

What if the "difficult" kid isn't the problem — it's that we're responding to their energy instead of the actual situation?
Dr. Bethany Bildeau (Dr. B) went from hiding in school bathrooms with panic attacks to becoming the sensory and behavioral specialist who helps the kids everyone else has given up on. She knows what it's like to be labeled "the problem." Now she works with students with trauma histories and teaches parents and educators how to support high-energy kids without breaking their spirit.
This is a conversation about navigating the messy middle of parenting when you're overthinking every decision and wondering if you're doing more harm than good. About the transition anxiety when your kid doesn't fit the mold and you're trying to figure out who you are as a parent. For anyone trying to validate big energy without losing your mind, set boundaries that protect everyone, and stop carrying the shame of "difficult."
Dr. B shares the 30-second stair trick that helps kids focus and regulate, why "suffering is a badge of honor" is killing our kids, the frozen water bottle hack for dysregulation, and how to tell if you're parenting from anxiety or responding to what's actually happening.
In this episode:
- How to support high-energy kids without breaking their spirit
- The 30-second stair trick (it oxygenates the prefrontal cortex)
- Frozen water bottle trick for immediate regulation
- Why parental anxiety shows up as behavioral responses in kids
- Boundaries for parents: validating energy without losing your mind
- How to make kids feel seen when behavior management fails
- Emotional regulation strategies that work for any age
- Starting over after being "the difficult kid"
Whether you're a parent trying not to break your kid's spirit, an educator dealing with the student nobody else will work with, or just someone navigating major life changes in how you understand behavior, this conversation is for you.
Get Connected & Support the Show:
- Listen to the companion podcast: It's Both- Guided Meditations for Anxiety, Emotional Regulation, & Real Life Transitions
- Follow Dr. B on Instagram & visit her website
- Subscribe, rate, & review It's Both on Apple Podcasts
- Join the Courageous Living Group Transformation

What does it feel like when starting over isn't a choice — it's just what's left?
The anxiety of rebuilding your identity after years of making yourself smaller is real. And the overthinking that follows — Am I doing this right? Was it my fault? Who am I without this? — can be relentless. This conversation is for anyone navigating the messy middle of major life changes after losing themselves completely.
Heather Sweeney is a military spouse and author whose work has appeared in the New York Times, Washington Post, and Reader's Digest. She shares her story of transition anxiety through a 13-year marriage that ended, seven-month in-house separation, and rediscovering her writing career under her maiden name. From holding grief and relief at the same time to rebuilding self-trust after years of selflessness, this is a raw conversation about boundaries, voice, and learning you can initiate a divorce AND still grieve what you lost.
Heather shares the both/and of military divorce ("my condolences and congratulations"), how to rebuild voice after making yourself invisible, why boundaries erode when you're always saying yes to someone else's needs, and the cycle that kept them stuck: no time to talk before deployment, during deployment, or after.
In this episode:
- The both/and of military divorce: grief and gratitude simultaneously
- How to rebuild self-trust and voice after years of selflessness
- Why boundaries erode when you're always saying yes to someone else's needs
- The deployment cycle that prevented real conversations
- Navigating major life changes when holding grief and gratitude at once
- Why anxiety and overthinking intensify during identity loss
- Practical tools for starting over and rebuilding during life transitions
- How military life can extend a bad marriage (the cycle of "we'll talk when...")
Get Connected & Support the Show:
- Listen to the companion podcast: It's Both- Guided Meditations for Anxiety, Emotional Regulation, & Real Life Transitions
- Follow Heather Sweeney on Instagram, visit her website, follow her on Substack, & order her book
- Subscribe, rate, & review It's Both on Apple Podcasts
- Join the Courageous Living Group Transformation

Feeling hijacked by anxiety and overthinking every decision — like you're constantly "neck up" in your head, unable to just be?
Joanna Hardis is a therapist and author who went from white-knuckling through life to learning how to be "neck down" — staying in her body instead of spiraling in her thoughts. She navigated the messy middle of major life changes through divorce, single parenting three kids, and being ghosted right before her birthday (yes, really) by practicing the paradox at the heart of her book Just Do Nothing: you can be safe and uncomfortable at the same time.
This is a conversation about life transitions when your default is to armor up or white-knuckle through. For anyone overthinking their way through parenting, anxiety, or major life changes — wondering if taking care of yourself makes you selfish.
Joanna shares emotional regulation tools for when anxiety hijacks you, practical distress tolerance practices (starting with your phone), and honest language for parenting without being controlled by fear or guilt. You'll hear why most of us armor up through people-pleasing, perfectionism, or overthinking — and how microdosing discomfort helps you respond to situations instead of reacting from emotions.
In this episode:
- Overthinking vs. neck-down awareness (and why therapy helped Joanna get out of her head)
- How to tell if you're parenting from anxiety or responding to the actual situation
- Distress tolerance 101: what it is and why it matters for emotional regulation
- The phone as a five-pound weight: microdosing discomfort in real life
- Boundaries for parents (and why asking for two minutes isn't selfish)
- How to hold the paradox: safe and uncomfortable, grief and gratitude, love and anger
- Why acknowledging feelings is essential — but fixating on them keeps you stuck
- Self-compassion when you screw it up (because we all do)
Get Connected & Support the Show:
- Listen to the companion podcast: It's Both- Guided Meditations for Anxiety, Emotional Regulation, & Real Life Transitions
- Follow Joanna Hardis on Instagram, visit her website, & buy her book Just Do Nothing or Just Do Nothing For Parents
- Subscribe, rate, & review It's Both on Apple Podcasts
- Join the Courageous Living Group Transformation

The messy middle of a life transition sometimes starts with a question you're too scared to ask out loud — and Nikki P sat on hers for years before she finally sent it in.
This is a solo episode about the moment an identity shift begins: ten years ago, Nikki wrote in a question about love, limits, and faith to a podcast — and Rob Bell answered it. His response moved her from people-pleasing to self-respect, from either/or thinking to both/and, and became one of the turning points that changed the direction of her life.
— How overthinking kept her in people-pleasing — and the question that broke the cycle— The both/and shift from either/or thinking to trusting herself— Why transition anxiety spikes when you're trying to be 'loving' and have limits at the same time— The full context of what was happening behind the scenes when she sent that question
If you've ever felt torn between taking care of yourself and being what others need — this one is for you.
Get Connected & Support the Show:
- Listen to the companion podcast: It's Both- Guided Meditations for Anxiety, Emotional Regulation, & Real Life Transitions
- Subscribe, rate, & review It's Both on Apple Podcasts
- Join the Courageous Living Group Transformation

The messy middle of a belief shift can feel like betrayal — like you're walking away from everything that once kept you safe, and the anxiety isn't a sign something's wrong. It might be a sign you're finally being honest.
Nashville minister David Moses Perez joins Nikki P to talk about navigating the identity shift of believing differently — that gap between who you were and who you're becoming as you move from either/or religion to a spacious both/and spirituality.
— The anxiety that comes when letting go feels like betrayal— An identity shift: who are you when your beliefs change?— Simple practices for emotional regulation during doubt— Finding (or building) community when your beliefs evolve— Love-first theology in everyday relationships— Limits with people who don't understand or accept your shift
You don't have to burn everything down. You don't have to pretend nothing changed. Both things can be true.
 
Get Connected & Support the Show:
- Listen to the companion podcast: It's Both- Guided Meditations for Anxiety, Emotional Regulation, & Real Life Transitions
- Get connected with David Moses Perez on his website, his church Spero Dei, & listen to his podcast Iconoclast
- Subscribe, rate, & review It's Both on Apple Podcasts
- Join the Courageous Living Group Transformation

The messy middle of losing your theology can feel like losing a language — you don't know how to talk about what you believe anymore, because the words you had were built inside a system that's no longer standing.
Brian Recker, author of Hell Bent, joins Nikki P to talk about what starting over looks like after fear-based faith collapses — the anxiety that follows deconstruction, the grief of certainty you didn't choose to lose, and what it means to rebuild self-trust when every belief you had was handed to you by someone else.
— Starting over when the theology you built your life on falls apart— Why fear-based systems create chronic anxiety that outlasts the belief— The grief of losing certainty — even certainty you no longer wanted— How to rebuild self-trust when systems break down— Navigating messy lives in the space between what you left and what you're building
You don't have to have it figured out. You just have to be willing to start over.
Get Connected & Support the Show:
- Listen to the companion podcast: It's Both- Guided Meditations for Anxiety, Emotional Regulation, & Real Life Transitions
- Follow Brian Recker on Instagram, visit his website, & buy his book Hell Bent
- Subscribe, rate, & review It's Both on Apple Podcasts
- Join the Courageous Living Group Transformation

Linda Kay Klein, author of Pure, grew up in purity culture. It took years to unlearn the shame.
This is a conversation about navigating the messy middle of major life changes after religious trauma. About the transition anxiety that comes when you're trying to rewrite the messages your body absorbed before you could even name them. For anyone deconstructing purity culture and realizing the grief isn't just about what you were taught — it's about who you became to survive it.
Linda shares how purity culture creates anxiety around sexuality, relationships, and your own body. You'll hear why overthinking every physical sensation kept her trapped, how to set boundaries around religious family expectations, and what it means to rebuild self-trust when shame was wired in as protection. This is about starting over in your relationship with your body, your faith, and yourself.
In this episode:
- How purity culture creates body shame and sexual anxiety
- Why religious trauma shows up as overthinking and hypervigilance
- Grief for the version of yourself that believed the lies
- Setting boundaries with families who still reinforce purity messaging
- Starting over in relationships after deconstruction
- Navigating major life changes in belief AND body image
- Faith transition and healing from sexual shame
- Emotional regulation after religious trauma
Get Connected & Support the Show:
- Listen to the companion podcast: It's Both- Guided Meditations for Anxiety, Emotional Regulation, & Real Life Transitions
- Follow Linda Kay Klein on Instagram & visit her website
- Subscribe, rate, & review It's Both on Apple Podcasts
- Join the Courageous Living Group Transformation

What if the anxiety and overthinking aren't because you don't know what to do — but because you're afraid of what you already know?
In Part 2 of my conversation with Rob Bell, we talk about the difference between overthinking as avoidance and trusting your inner knowing. About navigating the messy middle of major life changes when your gut is telling you one thing and your fear is screaming another. For anyone stuck in analysis paralysis, terrified that trusting yourself means you'll get it wrong.
Rob shares why anxiety spikes when we disconnect from our bodies, how religious conditioning trains us to distrust our own knowing, and what it means to move from "What should I do?" to "What do I already know?" You'll hear about the grief of realizing you've been betraying yourself to stay safe, and why starting over means listening to the whisper you've been ignoring.
In this episode:
- Why overthinking is often a way to avoid what you already know
- How anxiety disconnects you from your body's wisdom
- The grief of realizing you've been ignoring yourself
- Boundaries as a practice of honoring your inner knowing
- Starting over by trusting yourself first
- Faith transition and reclaiming your own authority
- Navigating major life changes when fear and intuition conflict
- Emotional regulation through body awareness
This episode builds on Part 1 ("The Certainty Trap & Overthinking"). Listen to Part 1 HERE first for deeper context.
Get Connected & Support the Show:
- Join the Courageous Living Group Transformation
- Listen to the companion podcast: It's Both- Guided Meditations for Anxiety, Emotional Regulation, & Real Life Transitions
- Follow Rob Bell on Instagram & visit his website
- Subscribe, rate, & review It's Both on Apple Podcasts