It’s Both — Living in the Messy Middle

The messy middle of anxiety often starts here: waiting for certainty that will never come before you're willing to move. Rob Bell calls it the certainty trap — the place where overthinking becomes a way to avoid living.
In Part 1 of this conversation, Rob and Nikki P talk about why we crave certainty so deeply, what happens when the systems that gave us certainty collapse, and how to move forward without the guarantee you've been waiting for.
— The certainty trap: why overthinking is often avoidance, not wisdom— The anxiety of choosing without a guarantee you're right— Grief for the black-and-white thinking you're letting go of— Learning to live in the question instead of demanding answers— Why starting over means releasing the need to know
Part 2 continues this conversation with more on self-trust and inner knowing. Listen to both.
Get Connected & Support the Show:
- Listen to the companion podcast: It's Both- Guided Meditations for Anxiety, Emotional Regulation, & Real Life Transitions
- Join the Courageous Living Group Transformation
- Follow Rob Bell on Instagram & visit his website
- Subscribe, rate, & review It's Both on Apple Podcasts

What if you made it through the year but you don't recognize yourself anymore?
This is a solo episode about the grief and gratitude of major life changes — that feeling when you survived but you're not the same person who started. About holding the hard and the hopeful at the end of a year that changed you. For anyone feeling the weight of everything they lost AND everything they learned.
I'm sharing what it means to close out a year navigating the messy middle of transitions you didn't choose. You'll hear why anxiety about the future intensifies at year's end, how to honor grief without letting it define you, and what it means to be grateful for growth that came at a cost. This is about starting over without erasing who you were.
In this episode:
- The grief of not being who you thought you'd be by now
- Anxiety about the future when this year broke you open
- Holding gratitude AND loss at the same time
- Navigating major life changes that weren't in the plan
- Starting over while honoring what you've survived
- Year-end reflection without toxic positivity
- Mixed emotions and the both/and of growth
- Emotional regulation when everything feels heavy
If this resonated, follow the show, rate & review on Apple Podcasts, and share it with someone who’s holding a lot right now.
Get Connected & Support the Show:
- Listen to the companion podcast: It's Both- Guided Meditations for Anxiety, Emotional Regulation, & Real Life Transitions
- Join the Courageous Living Group Transformation
- Subscribe, rate, & review It's Both on Apple Podcasts
- Follow the show on Instagram

What if the anxiety you feel isn't in your head — it's in your nervous system?
Janice Holland - The Trauma Teacher - knows what it's like when your body won't let you rest even when you're exhausted. This is a conversation about trauma, overthinking, and why your nervous system is stuck in survival mode. About navigating the messy middle of healing when your body keeps score. For anyone who can't turn off, can't sit still, and wonders why self-care advice never works.
Janice shares why trauma shows up as overthinking (your brain trying to predict danger), how anxiety lives in your body long after the threat is gone, and what emotional regulation actually means when your nervous system won't cooperate. You'll hear about the fawn response, holiday boundaries, and why rest feels unsafe when your body thinks it needs to stay alert.
In this episode:
- Why trauma creates overthinking as a survival strategy
- How anxiety lives in your nervous system, not just your thoughts
- Emotional regulation when your body is stuck in fight-or-flight
- The fawn response and people-pleasing as trauma adaptation
- Grief for the version of yourself before trauma
- Navigating major life changes in how you relate to your body
- Why rest feels unsafe (and what to do instead)
- Boundaries during holidays when your nervous system is activated
Get Connected & Support the Show:
- Join the Courageous Living Group Transformation
- Follow Janice Holland, The Trauma Teacher, on Instagram & YouTube
- Get connected with Janice Janice Holland, The Trauma Teacher
- Listen to the companion podcast: It's Both- Guided Meditations for Anxiety, Emotional Regulation, & Real Life Transitions
- Subscribe, rate, & review It's Both on Apple Podcasts

Oona Metz is therapist and an author who helps people hold grief and relief at the same time.
This is a conversation about navigating the messy middle of divorce — that gap between who you were as a partner and who you're becoming alone. About the transition anxiety that comes when ending something feels like failure AND freedom. For anyone starting over after a relationship and wondering if it's okay to feel both sad and relieved.
Oona shares why divorce grief is complicated (you're mourning what you lost AND what you never had), how to set boundaries when your ex is still in your life, and what it means to rebuild identity when half of it was built around someone else. You'll hear why overthinking every decision kept her stuck, how to hold mixed emotions without choosing sides, and why major life changes after divorce aren't just about logistics — they're about becoming someone you don't recognize yet.
In this episode:
- Why you can grieve the marriage AND be relieved it's over
- The anxiety and overthinking of starting over after divorce
- How to set boundaries with an ex
- Grief for who you were as a couple
- Navigating major life changes in identity after divorce
- Holding mixed emotions without toxic positivity
- Emotional regulation when everything feels contradictory
- Transition anxiety in the gap between married and single
If you’re considering separation, in the messy middle, or rebuilding on the other side, you’re not alone—and you don’t have to do this without support.
Get Connected & Support the Show:
- Follow Oona Metz on Instagram
- Get connected with Oona Metz (with links to order her upcoming book)
- Subscribe, rate, & review It's Both on Apple Podcasts
- Join the Courageous Living Group Transformation
- Listen to the companion podcast: It's Both- Guided Meditations for Anxiety, Emotional Regulation, & Real Life Transitions

The messy middle of chronic stress often looks like this: your body has been signaling distress for months, and you've been too busy overthinking to hear it.
Matt Bennett joins Nikki P to talk about what heart rate variability reveals about where your nervous system is stuck — and what emotional regulation actually looks like when you start listening to your body's signals instead of overriding them.
— What heart rate variability reveals about chronic stress— Why overthinking disconnects you from your body's signals— The difference between feeling 'fine' and actually being okay— Why pushing through makes it worse, not better— Emotional resilience through body awareness
Building emotional resilience doesn't start in your head. It starts with listening to what your body's already been trying to tell you.
Get Connected & Support the Show:
- Listen to the companion podcast: It's Both- Guided Meditations for Anxiety, Emotional Regulation, & Real Life Transitions
- Get connected with Matt Bennett
- Learn more about Heart Rate Variability (HRV)
- Subscribe, rate, & review It's Both on Apple Podcasts
- Join the Courageous Living Group Transformation
 

This is a conversation about the mental load of performing safety, the overthinking required to navigate predominantly white spaces, and the cost of making yourself smaller to survive. About navigating the messy middle of major life changes when you stop performing and start showing up as yourself. For anyone exhausted by code-switching and wondering what it costs to be "palatable."
Darius shares why anxiety multiplies when you're constantly calculating how you're being perceived, how overthinking every word and gesture becomes survival, and what it means to set boundaries around who gets your full self. You'll hear about the grief of realizing how much energy you've spent performing, and why starting over in sometimes means risking being seen as "difficult."
In this episode:
- The anxiety and overthinking of code-switching in different spaces
- Why performing "safe" creates chronic stress
- Grief for the energy spent making others comfortable
 Setting boundaries around code-switching
- Starting over by showing up as yourself
- Navigating major life changes in identity and belonging
- Emotional regulation when you're constantly on guard
Come for the story; leave with grounded language for uncertainty, duality, and showing up with integrity in complex spaces.
Get Connected & Support the Show:
- Listen to the companion podcast: It's Both- Guided Meditations for Anxiety, Emotional Regulation, & Real Life Transitions
- Subscribe, rate, & review It's Both on Apple Podcasts
- Join the Courageous Living Group Transformation

Emma Supica uses improv to help people with anxiety learn that there are no wrong answers — just offers.
This is a conversation about overthinking, anxiety, and what improv teaches you about letting go of perfect. About navigating the messy middle of not knowing what comes next and trusting yourself anyway. For anyone paralyzed by "What if I say the wrong thing?" and terrified to move without a script.
Emma shares why improv is the opposite of overthinking (you can't plan, you just respond), how anxiety dissolves when you embrace "yes, and," and what it means to trust your instincts instead of second-guessing them. You'll hear why the fear of being wrong keeps you stuck, how to practice spontaneity when your default is control, and why major life changes require the same skill as improv — showing up without knowing the ending.
In this episode:
- How improv dissolves overthinking by removing "wrong answers"
- Why anxiety spikes when you try to control outcomes
- "Yes, and" as a practice for life transitions
- Navigating major life changes without a script
- Trusting yourself when you don't know what comes next
- Why perfectionism keeps you frozen
- Emotional regulation through spontaneity
- Starting over when you can't plan everything
If you’re in a life transition and craving more ease, this one will help you hold both preparation and permission to be messy.
Get Connected & Support the Show:
- Listen to the companion podcast: It's Both- Guided Meditations for Anxiety, Emotional Regulation, & Real Life Transitions
- Get connected with Emma
- Learn more about Unscripted or follow them on Instagram
- Subscribe, rate, & review It's Both on Apple Podcasts
- Join the Courageous Living Group Transformation

What if the overwhelm you feel isn't because you don't care enough — it's because you care too much about too many things?
Liv Paige helps activists find their focus without the burnout. This is a conversation about activism, overwhelm, and what it means to choose your focus when the world is on fire. About navigating the messy middle of caring deeply while protecting your capacity. For anyone paralyzed by anxiety about all the causes they "should" support and overthinkingwhether their efforts matter.
Liv shares why trying to care about everything leads to burnout, how to set boundaries around your activism without guilt, and what it means to choose depth over breadth. You'll hear why performative activism creates anxiety, how to sustain major life changes in how you show up, and why choosing focus doesn't mean you don't care.
In this episode:
- Why caring about everything creates paralysis
- Anxiety and overthinking in activism
- Setting boundaries on causes without guilt
- Sustainable activism vs. burnout culture
- Navigating major life changes in how you show up
- Choosing depth over performative breadth
- Emotional regulation when the world feels heavy
- Grief for what you can't fix
If you've been feeling both hope and fatigue, this conversation helps you choose your focus—and take the next doable step without overthinking.
Get Connected & Support the Show:
- Follow Liv on Instagram or visit her salon website
- Subscribe, rate, & review It's Both on Apple Podcasts
- Join the Courageous Living Group Transformation
Resources 
- Listen to the companion podcast: It's Both- Guided Meditations for Anxiety, Emotional Regulation, & Real Life Transitions
- GoVoteTN, Call or visit 211 if you are ever unsure where to turn for support
- TN Justice For Our Neighbors, TN Justice Center, TN Immigrant & Refugee Rights Coalition 
- Oasis Center Nashville, Nashville Launchpad, Trans Aid Nashville
- Tennessee Equality Project, Music City Migra Watch
- Second Harvest Food Bank, Nashville Food Project, Open Table Nashville
- Oasis WIC/SNAP Emergency Needs, Open Table Winter Supply Needs
 

What if you could sit in the unknown without overthinking your way out of it?
This episode is about anxiety in uncertainty — that feeling when you don't know what's next and your brain won't stop trying to figure it out. About navigating the messy middle of major life changes when the only answer is "I don't know yet." For anyone who spirals in the unknown and needs permission to just... be there.
I'm sharing what it means to sit with uncertainty without making it mean you're doing it wrong. You'll hear why overthinking is a way to avoid the discomfort of not knowing, how anxiety spikes when we demand answers too soon, and what it means to trust the process when you can't see the outcome. This is about life transitions without timelines, and learning to be okay with "not yet."
In this episode:
- Why overthinking is often avoidance of uncertainty
- How anxiety multiplies when we demand premature answers
- Sitting with "I don't know" without spiraling
- Navigating major life changes without timelines
- Messy middle as a place to live, not escape
- Trusting the process when you can't see the path
- Emotional regulation in the unknown
- Grief for the certainty you thought you'd have
Resources & Links:
- Listen to the companion podcast: It's Both- Guided Meditations for Anxiety, Emotional Regulation, & Real Life Transitions
- Subscribe, rate, & review It's Both on Apple Podcasts
- Join the Courageous Living Group Transformation
- It's Both on Instagram & Youtube

What if your kid's meltdown isn't the problem — it's what their meltdown triggers in you?
Mandy Grass is a behavior analyst who helps parents understand what's happening beneath the meltdown. This is a conversation about boundaries, anxiety, and what happens when your child's big feelings activate your own unresolved stuff. About navigating the messy middle of parenting when you're trying to regulate them AND yourself. For anyone who loses it with their kids and wonders why emotional regulation is so hard.
Mandy shares why your kid's meltdown might be triggering your own childhood wounds, how to set boundaries that feel respectful (not punitive), and what it means to stay regulated when chaos erupts. You'll hear practical tools from a behavior analyst's perspective, why punishment doesn't work, and how major life changes in your parenting approach start with understanding your own triggers.
In this episode:
- Why your kid's meltdown triggers your anxiety
- Boundaries that work without punishment or shame
- Emotional regulation for parents (not just kids)
- How your own childhood wounds show up in parenting
- Navigating major life changes in parenting approach
- Staying present when you want to escape
- Practical behavior analysis tools for real life
- Grief for the parenting you thought you'd do
If you're juggling big feelings, tiny humans, and zero bandwidth—this one gives you realistic language you can use today without anxiety or perfectionism.
Resources & Links:
- Listen to the companion podcast: It's Both- Guided Meditations for Anxiety, Emotional Regulation, & Real Life Transitions
- Get connected with Mandy Grass, The Family Behaviorist
- Follow Mandy on Instagram
- Subscribe, rate, & review It's Both on Apple Podcasts
- Join the Courageous Living Group Transformation
- It's Both on Instagram & Youtube